Izinyoni ziyatheleka. Izintethe ziyanyakaza. Isikole sezinhlanzi. Phakathi kwezinto eziphilayo ezibonakala sengathi zingase zibe nesiphithiphithi, kuvela ukuhleleka ngandlela thize. Ukuziphatha okuhlangene kwezilwane kuyahluka emininingwaneni yazo kusukela kolunye uhlobo kuya kolunye, kodwa zinamathela kakhulu ezimisweni zokunyakaza okuhlangene eziye zasebenza osolwazi befiziksi phakathi namakhulu eminyaka. Manje, besebenzisa ubuchwepheshe obusanda kutholakala, abacwaningi baye bakwazi ukufunda lezi zindlela zokuziphatha ngokuseduze kunanini ngaphambili.

Kulesi siqephu, isazi sokuziphendukela kwemvelo Iain Couzin ukhuluma nomphathi USteven Strogatz mayelana nokuthi kungani futhi kungani izilwane zibonisa ukuziphatha okuhlangene, zithutheleka njengendlela yokubala yezinto eziphilayo, kanye nezinye zezinzuzo zokufaneleka ezifihliwe zokuphila njengengxenye yeqembu elizihlelele kunokuba njengomuntu oyedwa. Baphinde baxoxe ngokuthi ukuqonda okuthuthukisiwe kwezinambuzane ezinjengesikhonyane kungasiza kanjani ekuvikeleni ukulondeka kokudla emhlabeni wonke.

Lalelani Apple Podcasts, Spotify, I-Google Podcasts, TuneIn noma uhlelo lwakho lokusebenza oluthandayo lwe-podcasting, noma ungakwazi sakaza ukusuka I-Quanta.

Okulotshiweyo

[Itimu iyadlala]

STEVEN STROGATZ: Kuso sonke isilwane, kusukela omiyane abancane kuya kwezinhlanzi, izinyoni, izinsephe, ngisho nezinkawu njengathi, izidalwa zivame ukuhlela zibe amaphethini amakhulu anyakazayo aphishekela umgomo obonakala uzenzakalela. Imvamisa, asikho isidalwa esisodwa esibonakala sisebenza njengomholi, sihlela lokhu kunyakaza kwabantu abaningi. Kunalokho, izilwane zivele ziwele emgqeni.

Futhi noma kuzwakala sengathi lezi zinhlelo zizongena ezinxushunxushwini noma ekungazinzini, la maqoqo ngandlela thize ayakwazi ukunyakaza ngendlela ebonakala ihlanganiswe kahle ngendlela emangalisayo futhi inenjongo, njengoba noma ubani oke wabuka ukuvungama kwezinkanyezi noma isikole sezinhlanzi angafakaza. Kodwa yini ebangela lokhu kuziphatha?

Ngingu-Steve Strogatz, futhi lena "Injabulo Yokwenza," i-podcast evela I-Quanta Magazine lapho engibambisene naye Janna Levin futhi ngiyashintshana ngokuhlola eminye yemibuzo emikhulu engaphenduliwe kuzibalo nesayensi namuhla.

[Itimu iyaphela]

Kulesi siqephu, sizobe sithola umnyombo wokuthi kungani izilwane zitheleka, zigcwala futhi esikoleni. Bunjani ubuchwepheshe bakamuva, njengobuhlakani bokwenziwa namakhamera e-3D, bunikeza ukuqonda okusha? Futhi ukutadisha amandla eqembu lezilwane kungasitshelani ngathi, kokubili ngabanye nanjengamaqoqo?

Lapha ukuze sikhanyisele lezi zimfihlakalo isazi sokuziphendukela kwemvelo Iain Couzin. U-Iain ungumqondisi woMnyango Wezokuziphatha Ngokuhlanganyela e-Max Planck Institute of Animal Behavior kanye noprofesa ogcwele eNyuvesi yase-Konstanz. Phakathi kwezindondo eziningi azitholile kubalwa i-National Geographic Emerging Explorer Award, uMklomelo we-Lagrange, ukuhlonishwa okuphezulu kakhulu emkhakheni wesayensi eyinkimbinkimbi, kanye Nomklomelo we-Leibniz, indondo yocwaningo oluphakeme kakhulu eJalimane. Iain, sijabule kakhulu ukuba nawe namuhla.

U-IAIN COUZIN: Kumnandi ukuba lapha, Steve.

STROGATZ: Hhayi-ke, ngijabule kakhulu ukukubona futhi. Singabangane bakudala, futhi lokhu kuzoba intokozo yangempela ukuzwa mayelana nokuziphatha kwakamuva. Kodwa ake siqale - ngicabanga ukuthi kufanele sikhulume, obani izibonelo zakho? Ungakwazi yini ukusitshela okuncane ngezinye zezilwane, kanye nezinhlobonhlobo zezindlela ukuziphatha kwazo ngokuhlanganyela ezithatha ezinhlelweni ozifundile?

COUZIN: Hhayi-ke, lokho kungenye yezinto ezimangalisa kakhulu ngokufunda ukuziphatha njengeqoqo. Kuwukuthi iwumgogodla wezinqubo eziningi zokuphila emhlabeni wethu kangangokuthi sifunda ngokoqobo uhla lwezinto eziphilayo, kusukela esilwaneni esilula kunazo zonke emhlabeni - sibizwa ngokuthi i-placozoa; i-basal phylum, mhlawumbe isilwane esilula kunazo zonke emhlabeni; yi uxhaxha lwamaseli, izinkulungwane zamangqamuzana, zinyakaza kakhulu njengomhlambi wezinyoni noma isikole sezinhlanzi - zikhuphukela ezilwaneni ezingenamgogodla, njengezintuthwane, ezinokuziphatha okuhlene okumangalisayo, noma izinkumbi, ezakha uswebezane olukhulu kakhulu, olubhubhisa kakhulu, ezilwaneni ezinomgogodla, njengemfundo yesikole. izinhlanzi, izinyoni ezifufusayo, izilwane ezifuywayo zokwelusa, nezinkawu, kuhlanganise nathi—abantu.

STROGATZ: Ngakho-ke, kubonakala sengathi kugijima yonke i-gamut, yonke indlela ukusuka - kufanele ngivume, angikaze ngizwe ngalokhu, ingabe ngithole kahle: i-placozoa?

COUZIN: Placozoa, yebo. Lesi sidalwa esincane satholwa sikhasa phezu kwengilazi ye-aquaria, i-tropical aquaria. Ungayibona ngeso lenyama. Ingaba imilimitha, mhlawumbe imilimitha nengxenye uma inkulu kakhulu. Futhi, uyazi, ukubheka lesi sidalwa esimangalisayo muva nje kudonse ukunaka kososayensi.

Futhi lokho kungenxa yokuthi leli qulu lamangqamuzana eliyinqaba eliyinqaba linenkimbinkimbi yezakhi zofuzo ongahlobanisa nento ephilayo eyinkimbinkimbi kakhulu. Isibonelo, inohlu olukhulu lwama-neurotransmitters, nokho ayinawo ama-neurons.

[U-STROGATZ uyahleka]

Inalokhu okubizwa IHox ufuzo. IHox izakhi zofuzo zikusayensi yokuthuthukisa ehambisana nezinhlelo zomzimba eziyinkimbinkimbi. Ayinalo uhlelo lomzimba oluyinkimbinkimbi. Futhi-ke mhlawumbe ungase ucabange, kahle, lesi sidalwa kungenzeka ukuthi savela saba yinkimbinkimbi futhi saphinde savela ukuze sizenze zibe lula, ngakho-ke sagcina lezi zici eziyinkimbinkimbi.

Kodwa abacwaningi bofuzo bashicilele uhlobo lwephepha eliyingqopha-mlando kujenali Nature lokho kwabonisa, cha, empeleni, lokhu kungenye ye amaqembu amaningi abalulekile amaseli. Futhi-ke, ukuziphatha okuhlangene, yisiphi isibonelo esihle ukwedlula amaseli ahlangana ndawonye ukuze akhe into ephilayo. Uyazi? Ngakho lesi ngesinye sezizathu esenza sifunda lokhu: ukuzama ukuqonda ukuthi ukuziphatha ngokuhlanganyela kwakuwumgogodla wemvelaphi yokuphila okuyinkimbinkimbi emhlabeni wethu.

STROGATZ: Ndoda, lesi yisigaba sokuqala senhlolokhono futhi usuvele ungishaya ingqondo. Nawe uyangiphambanisa kulokho ebengicabanga ukuthi ngizokhuluma ngakho nawe. Lokhu kuyathakazelisa kakhulu futhi kusha kimi kangangokuthi ngimangele. Ngifuna ukubuyela kule ngxenye yendaba ngoba kunjalo—ngiqonde ukuthi, kuyamangaza ngempela ukuthi bebengaba… Ngabe ngikuzwe kahle, ukuthi banezinto ezihlobene nokuba nesimiso sezinzwa, kodwa bengenawo isimiso sezinzwa? Futhi ube nezakhi zofuzo ezithuthukayo njengokungathi zidinga ukuguqula uhlelo lomzimba oluyinkimbinkimbi njengempukane yezithelo, kodwa azinawo umzimba onjalo?

COUZIN: Impela, impela. Ngakho-ke, bangasinika inkomba ngempela ngemvelaphi yobuhlakani. Isifundo sethu esithile, esiyishicilele kulo nyaka, niyazi, sibonise ukuthi uhlelo lomzimba abanalo ngempela liziphatha kakhulu njengomhlambi wezinyoni noma isikole sezinhlanzi, ngamaseli asendaweni asebenzisana nabanye futhi ajwayele ukuvumelanisa indlela yawo yokuhamba.

Ngakho bakhangwa omunye nomunye. Zixhumeke ndawonye njengeshidi elinwebekayo, kodwa zivame ukuba ne-motile. Bane-cilia, i-cilia encane esisekelweni sabo, ukuze bakwazi ukugeleza endaweni ezungezile. Futhi amandla abawasebenzisa komakhelwane babo abaseduze abangela ukuba baqondane.

Ngakho-ke, uma silandelela la maseli ngaphansi kwesibonakhulu, futhi sibheka ukuqondanisa futhi sibheka ukukhanga komuntu ngamunye, sisebenzisa kakhulu ubuchwepheshe obufanayo, amamodeli afanayo, ukucabanga okufanayo esikusebenzisela. ukuziphatha ngokuhlanganyela emihlambini yezinyoni noma izikole zezinhlanzi noma ezinye izinhlobo zamaqembu kodwa sebenzisa kulezi zilwane.

Ngakho-ke, lokhu kungenye yezinto engizithola ziphawuleka kakhulu mayelana nokuziphatha okuhlangene, ukuthi nakuba izakhiwo zesistimu, noma ngabe uyingqamuzana noma uyinyoni, zihluke kakhulu, uma ubheka. isenzo esihlangene, izakhiwo ezihlangene, izibalo ezisekela lokhu, empeleni zingakwazi kubukeka kufana kakhulu. Futhi ngakho singathola lezi, uhlobo, lokho okubizwa ngokuthi izakhiwo zomhlaba wonke ezixhuma lezi zinhlelo ezihlukene, ngokusobala ezihlukene.

STROGATZ: Yebo-ke, manje usukhuluma ulimi lwami, njengoba, uyazi, yilokho okwangidonsela ekuthakaseleni kwami ​​ukuziphatha okuhlangene, ukuthi kukhona lezo zimiso zezibalo zomhlaba wonke ezibonakala zisebenza phezulu naphansi esikalini ukusuka kumangqamuzana ukuya kuye. , yebo, sithanda njalo ukuzibeka phezulu.

Kodwa, ngakho-ke, kulungile, uphakamise izindaba eziningi ezahlukene ukuze sicabange ngazo. Ake ngizame ukubuyela ekuqaleni, njengoba ngingathanda ukuhlala nawe lapha nePlacozoa.

Ngakho-ke, isibonelo, ukhulume amagama anjengokuthi “imihlambi” nelithi “izikole,” futhi ngezinye izikhathi sizwa abantu bekhuluma “ngeziswebezane,” njengezinambuzane. Ingabe sikhona isizathu sokuba sibe namagama amathathu ahlukene ento efanayo? Ingabe azifani ngempela uma sikhuluma ngamaqembu ahlangene? Ingabe sikhona isizathu sokungafanele sikhulume ngaso, njengokufunda izinyoni noma izinhlanzi eziswebezelayo?

COUZIN: Cha, ngicabanga ukuthi siwenzile la magama, futhi izilimi ezahlukene zinamagama ahlukene. NgesiJalimane, okuwulimi olugcwele amagama amaningi, empeleni anamambalwa uma kuqhathaniswa. Nakuba ngesiNgisi, sinamagama amaningi, amaningi ahlukene. Njengokuthi uyazi, isibonelo, iqembu lamagwababa libizwa ngokuthi ukubulawa kwamagwababa.

[U-STROGATZ uyahleka]

Wena ngokwakho ngaphambilini usebenzise igama elimangalisayo, “ukububula” kwezinkanyezi. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi yilokhu, ubuhle, ubuhle obukhangayo bokubuthana nokufunda esikoleni nokuphithizela, okunikeziwe la mazwi amangalisayo angahlotshaniswa nezibonelo ezithile.

Ngakho-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kuyinto ewusizo kakhulu, ngoba ngaphambili bengigcizelela izinto ezivamile, ukufana kwezibalo, kodwa futhi kukhona umehluko. Kunomehluko phakathi koquqaba lwamaseli noswebezane lwezinyoni. Ngakho-ke, ukuqonda lezi zinhlelo, sobabili kufanele sicabangele izimiso ezifanayo, kodwa nalezo ezihlukile phakathi kwezinhlelo. Futhi ngandlela thize, uhlobo lolimi luthwebula okunye kwalokho ngendlela abantu ngokwemvelo abaye bahlukanisa ngayo noma bahlukanise lokhu ngezigaba ezahlukene.

STROGATZ: Kuyathakazelisa. Ngakho-ke, ukhulume “ngoswebezane lwamangqamuzana” kanye “noquqaba lwezinambuzane,” ngicabanga ukuthi kwakunjalo, futhi uthe kungase kube khona umehluko nakuba sisebenzisa igama elifanayo. Yiziphi izinto okufanele sizihlukanise phakathi kwalezo zibonelo?

COUZIN: Yebo, ngicabanga ukuthi okujabulisa kakhulu ukuthi kungani kunokufana, ngoba umehluko ujule kakhulu. Isilwane sinobuchopho. Ingenisa ulwazi lwezinzwa oluyinkimbinkimbi futhi izama ukwenza izinqumo ngendawo yayo. Izilwane ziyakwazi ukuziphatha okuyinkimbinkimbi kakhulu, okuyinkimbinkimbi, ngokwesilinganiso, kunamaseli.

Kodwa-ke, amangqamuzana ngokwawo anezinqubo zangaphakathi eziyinkimbinkimbi. Kodwa ukusebenzisana kwazo kubuswa ngokwezinga elikhulu ngamandla enyama, ngesilinganiso ezisebenza ngaso kanye nokungezwani okwenzekayo, ukungezwani komzimba okwenzeka ngaphakathi kweqoqo lamaseli.

Nakuba izilwane, ukuxhumana phakathi kwezinyoni emhlambini, azibonakali. Abanalo isimo somzimba. Futhi ngakho-ke umuntu angase aqale acabange, kahle, khona-ke kuwumfanekiso kuphela. Eqinisweni, ngingasho kuze kube cishe eminyakeni emihlanu kuya kweyi-10 edlule, ngacabanga ukuthi kwakuwumfanekiso nje futhi. Ngacabanga ukuthi lo mehluko kumelwe ukuba ubaluleke kakhulu. Kodwa esiqala ukukuqonda ukuthi isici esivamile ababelana ngaso siwukubala.

Ukuthi lezi zakhi zihlangana ndawonye ukuze zihlanganise ngendawo yazo ngezindlela ezingakwazi ukuzihlanganisa ngokwazo. Umuntu ngamunye, noma ngabe unobuchopho bomuntu obuyinkimbinkimbi kakhulu, futhi uhamba emhlabeni, ngaphandle uma unokuxhumana nabanye abantu, noma ngisho nangaphezulu, uyazi, yakhela phezu kobunzima bamasiko esizuza njengefa sizalelwa ezimpilweni zethu, ngakho-ke silinganiselwe kakhulu.

Ngakho-ke, kukhona le mibuzo ejulile, uhlobo lwemibuzo ehehayo esisaqala ukuyiphendula mayelana nokubala kanye nokuvela kwempilo eyinkimbinkimbi.

STROGATZ: Umbono onjalo othakazelisayo. Bengingazi ukuthi uzothini uma uthi kukhona abafana ngakho bonke. Bengi - angikwazanga ukuqagela, kodwa ngiyakuthanda: ukubala.

Ngakho-ke, uyazi, kungenza ngicabange ngento edumile okungenzeka ukuthi abantu bake bayibona amafilimu ayo ku-YouTube noma kumabonakude, lapho kunomhlambi wezinyoni - mhlawumbe inkanyezi - noklebe noma ukheshe noma okuthile kuza kusondeza eduze. umhlambi. Mhlawumbe kufanele usinike incazelo ebonakalayo yalokho okwenzeka ngokulandelayo, futhi kungani ngicabanga ukuthi kukhona okuphathelene nokubala kulesi sibonelo?

COUZIN: Hhayi-ke ngiqonde ukuthi uma ubheka lawa maqembu uyazi, uma unalezi zilwane ezidla ezinye ezihlasela lawa maqembu, noma ngabe isikole sezinhlanzi noma umhlambi wezinyoni, ubona leli qembu liziphatha njengalolu hlobo loketshezi olugelezayo. Ubona lokhu kugeleza kokukhanya kweqa iqembu noma ama-ripples of density ukweqa iqembu.

Futhi lokhu okubonisa ukuthi abantu bangasakaza ulwazi mayelana nendawo yaleso silwane esizingelayo ngokushesha okukhulu ngokusebenzisana komphakathi. Ngakho-ke abantu ababona umhlaseli, ngokwesibonelo - mhlawumbe abambalwa babo baqale babone umhlaseli. Kodwa ngokuphenduka, khona-ke lokhu kuziphatha okukopishwa ngabanye, ukuguqulwa kokuminyana, ukuguqulwa kokuphenduka, kusakazwa ngokushesha okukhulu.

Futhi uma sisebenzisa - nginesiqiniseko sokuthi sizofika kulokhu ngokuhamba kwesikhathi - uma sisebenzisa amathuluzi wokucabanga athuthukile ukulinganisa, ukulinganisa, lawa magagasi okuphenduka, kuphumela kugagasi lokusakazeka elicishe liphindwe izikhathi eziyi-10 kunejubane elikhulu. wesilwane esizingelayo uqobo. Ngakho abantu bangaphendula umhlaseli abangawuboni nawubona.

Ngakho-ke, iqembu kanye nabantu abathile eqenjini - ngenxa yokuthi ukukhetha, ukukhetha kwemvelo, kusebenza kubantu ngabanye - ngokuvamile, bangakwazi ukuphendula ezishukumisayo abangaziboni.

Kufana, uyazi, i-neuron edlulisa ulwazi ngamasignali kagesi. Kulokhu, akuzona izimpawu zikagesi. Ukuminyana nokushintshashintsha kwabantu okugcwele iqembu lonke, kodwa kunikeza labo bantu ulwazi olukude lapho usongo lukhona, ukuze baqale ukuqhela kulo ngokushesha okukhulu.

STROGATZ: Ngakho-ke lokho, ngicabanga, isibonelo esihle kakhulu esibonakalayo sokuthi ukubala kungasho ukuthini kulo mongo. Ukuthi singabona la magagasi okwethuka noma okugwema egeleza emhlambini. Kuyathakazelisa kakhulu ukuthi kushesha kakhulu kunalokho abantu abangakwenza bebodwa, futhi, ngicabanga, kushesha ukwedlula lokho umhlaseli ongazihlanganisa yedwa.

COUZIN: Esinye sezizathu zokuthi kungani lokhu kungenzeka, kungani sicabanga ukuthi lokhu kungenxa yokuthi iqembu - ukukhethwa kwemvelo, nakuba kuthinta umuntu ngamunye, ukufaneleka kwabo okubalulekile, kukhona inzuzo enjalo kuwo wonke umuntu uma beziphatha. ngendlela ethile.

Lokhu kuphinde kuhlobane nalokho esikufundile ezinhlelweni zenyama, ikakhulukazi amasistimu aphathekayo eduze nenguquko yesigaba. Ngakho-ke, uhlelo oluseduze noguquko phakathi kwezifunda ezihlukene, ezifana phakathi kokuqinile noketshezi, uyazi, uma uqandisa amanzi futhi ngokuzumayo ashintshe abe okuqinile, ukuziphatha okuhlangene kwalolo hlelo kuyamangalisa kakhulu eduze nalokho. iphoyinti loguquko, lokhu kuphindaphindwa kabili, okuyindawo yakho yokufunda. Futhi lokhu kuyinto esiyazi manje, manje sesinobufakazi obunamandla kakhulu, bokuthi ukukhethwa kwemvelo kududula izinhlelo eduze nalawa maphuzu we-bifurcation ngenxa yezakhiwo ezihlangene, izakhiwo eziqoqiwe eziphawulekayo, eziboniswayo.

Lapho siqala ukukala lezi zakhiwo, kwakubonakala sengathi abantu babedelela imithetho ye-physics. Ulwazi lwaluhamba ngokushesha.

Futhi, ekuqaleni kwawo-1900, Edmund Selous, owayengumfundi kaDarwin oqinisekisiwe, kodwa, uyazi, futhi uhlobo lokukhangwa ukuthakazelisa nge-telepathy enkathini yama-Victorian, wacabanga ukuthi kufanele kube nokudluliswa komcabango, wakuchaza, noma i-telepathy phakathi kwezinyoni ezivumela ukuthi zixhumane ngokushesha.

Futhi-ke abantu, niyazi, bacabanga, “Awu, lokho kuyinhlekisa, vele ngeke kube khona ukufunda ngengqondo.” Kodwa empeleni, futhi lokhu mhlawumbe kuyimpikiswano encane, kodwa empeleni, ngicabanga ukuthi asikaziqondi kahle izindlela zokuzwa kanye nendlela lolu lwazi olugeleza ngayo ngokushesha okukhulu kulo lonke uhlelo.

Angiphakamisi ukuthi kukhona i-telepathy, kunjalo. Kodwa ngiphakamisa ukuthi ngokulungisa uhlelo, ngokulungisa uhlelo oluhlangene eduze kwaleli phuzu elibalulekile, eduze naleli phuzu lokuhlukaniswa kabili, kungase kubangele izici eziqoqiwe eziphawulekayo, okuthi kobukele, zibukeke zimnandi, kobukele, abukeke. eyinqaba. Ngoba i-physics kule mibuso iyinqaba, iyamangalisa, iyamangalisa, nakuba iqondakala ngesayensi.

STROGATZ: Ngakho-ke ngiyazibuza, manje endabeni yokuziphatha okuhlangene, uma imvelo ishuna umhlambi ukuba ube seduze nohlobo oluthile lwephuzu lokungazinzi noma lokugxeka. Ingabe uphakamisa ukuthi lokho kuyingxenye yalokho okwenza kuphumelele kangaka?

COUZIN: Yebo, yilokho impela engikuphakamisayo. Futhi ngakho, isibonelo, uyazi, futhi, a kakhulu iphepha lamuva phakathi neminyaka embalwa edlule esiyishicilele, sibuze, uyazi, kuthiwani ngokuthola okungcono kunawo wonke umhlaba? Kuthiwani uma, uyazi, ngaphansi kwezimo ezijwayelekile ufuna ukuzinza, ufuna ukuqina. Kodwa ngezinye izikhathi ufuna ukuba ne-hypersensitive. Ngakho-ke ekukhethweni kwemvelo, amasistimu ebhayoloji kufanele alinganise lesi simo esimangalisayo, esibonakala siphikisana sokuba kokubili okuqinile nokuzwela. Ningaba kanjani nokuqina nokuzwela ngesikhathi esisodwa?

Ngakho-ke, sicabanga ukuthi, uyazi, ukulungisa uhlelo eduze naleli phuzu elibucayi, empeleni kuvumela lokho ukuthi kwenzeke ngoba uma uhlelo luchezuka, empeleni liyazinza. Kodwa njengoba iphokophela kulelo phuzu elibucayi, iba nokuguquguquka ngendlela emangalisayo futhi izwela okokufaka, ngakho-ke ngokwesibonelo, okokufaka mayelana nalesi silwane esizingelayo. Ngakho-ke uma isikole sezinhlanzi sikude kakhulu nalelo phuzu elibalulekile - isibonelo, uma ziqondaniswe kakhulu - futhi zithola umhlaseli, empeleni kuthatha umzamo omkhulu ukuguqula bonke laba bantu. Baphendulana ngamandla kangangokuthi kuba nzima ukuthi lokho okufakwayo kwangaphandle kuguqule ukuziphatha kwabo.

Uma, ngakolunye uhlangothi, ziphazamisekile kakhulu futhi zonke zihamba ngezindlela ezihlukene, khona-ke umuntu oshintshayo ngeke akwazi ukubonwa abanye ngakho-ke akusakazeki ngohlelo.

Ngakho-ke kulolu hlobo lwendawo emaphakathi, empeleni bangakwazi ukukhulisa amandla abo okuziphatha njengeqembu futhi bavumelane nezimo, kodwa badlulise ulwazi. Futhi lena inkolelo-mbono evela ku-physics osekunesikhathi eside ikhona, kodwa empeleni phakathi neminyaka embalwa edlule isebenzisa ubuchwepheshe bokubona ngekhompyutha ukulandelela izilwane ngamaqembu futhi ubuze, ushintsha kanjani, uyazi, ukusebenzisana kwakho lapho, isibonelo, umhlaba. iba yingozi kakhulu?

Besihlala sicabanga njengezazi zebhayoloji, “Hhayi-ke, uma umhlaba uba yingozi kakhulu futhi ube yingozi kakhulu, ngizozwela kakhulu kulokho okufakwayo. Ngizoba matasa kakhulu, maningi amathuba okuthi ngenze i-alamu engamanga.” Futhi lokho kuyiqiniso ngezilwane zodwa. Kuyiqiniso ngabantu uma siziphatha sodwa. Kodwa sikuhlole lokhu emaqenjini ezilwane, amaqembu avele ngaphakathi komongo weqoqo, futhi sithola ukuthi lokho akulona iqiniso ngawo.

Abakwenzayo bashintsha inethiwekhi, inethiwekhi yokuxhumana, yokuthi ulwazi lugeleza kanjani ohlelweni. Futhi bawushuna njengokuthuthukisa lolu hlobo lwe-flexibility-robustness tradeoff, okungukuthi, balufaka kulo mbuso obucayi njengoba sasibikezele.

STROGATZ: Lolu cwaningo lwenziwa yiziphi izinhlobo zezilwane?

COUZIN: Ngakho-ke sisebenza kakhulu nezinhlanzi ezincane zesikole ngoba kufanele zixazulule uhlobo olufanayo lwezinkinga - ukugwema izilwane ezidla ezinye, ukuthola indawo yokuhlala efanelekile - nokho ziyakwazi ukulawuleka endaweni yaselabhorethri. Ngakho izinhlanzi empeleni zinekhemikhali, ebizwa ngokuthi i-schreckstoff, okusho ukuthi ngesiJalimane ngokwezwi nezwi “izinto ezesabekayo.” Futhi i-schreckstoff idedelwa ngokwemvelo, uma isilwane esizingelayo sihlasela inhlanzi, kufanele sikhiphe leli khemikhali.

Ngakho singabeka i-schreckstoff emanzini, ngakho-ke akukho ndawo yesilwane esizingelayo, kodwa ukwahlulela kwabantu ngabanye mayelana nale ndawo kuyashintsha, umhlaba uye waba yingozi kakhulu.

Wenzani-ke, uyakushintsha yini okwenzeka ebuchosheni bakho? Ingabe uyayishintsha indlela osebenzisana ngayo nemvelo? Ingabe uyesaba kakhulu, okuyinto engokwemvelo esingase sicabange ukuthi izilwane ziyenziwa?

Noma, uma ucabanga, ohlelweni lwenethiwekhi, ohlelweni oluhlangene, ingabe uyashintsha i-topology yaleyo nethiwekhi, inethiwekhi yokuxhumana nabantu, indlela oxhumana ngayo nabanye? Ngoba lokho kungashintsha nokusabela ezinsongweni, ngenxa yaleli gagasi lokuphenduka esikhulume ngakho ngaphambili.

Ngakho-ke esikutholile ukuthi abantu ngabanye abashintshi. Okwenzekayo izinguquko zenethiwekhi. Abantu banyakaza ukushintsha ukwakheka kwaleyo nethiwekhi, futhi yilokho okwenza iqembu livele libe bucayi kakhulu futhi libe nezimo.

Abantu abajwayele, ngokwesibonelo, babe nommeleli, okungukuthi abantu abasondelene kufanele baxhumane kakhulu. Kepha, njengoba ungacabanga empilweni yakho yansuku zonke, ungahle uhlezi eceleni komuntu ongamazi ngokuphelele ebhasini, futhi empeleni ungaxhumeki kuye ngokwenhlalo ngokwesilinganiso. Ngakho-ke, inethiwekhi yokuxhumana nabantu abahlangabezana nayo ingase yehluke kakhulu kuleyo okulula ukuyikala.

Ngakho-ke esikwenzile - kahle, kuyinkimbinkimbi kakhulu. Kodwa esingakwenza wukwakha kabusha umhlaba ngokombono wabo. Futhi sisebenzisa ubuciko obuvela emidlalweni yamavidiyo nezithombe zekhompiyutha ezibizwa ngokuthi i-raycasting, lapho siphonsa khona imisebe yokukhanya kuyi-retina yabantu ngabanye ukuze sibone uhlobo oluthile lokumelela okukhompuyutha kwalokho abakubonayo isikhathi ngasinye. Kodwa esingakwazi ukuthi, bakwenza kanjani lokho emhlabeni?

Futhi ngakho futhi, singasebenzisa izindlela zokufunda ngomshini, ngoba bonke ubuchopho buye bavela ukuze benze into efanayo. Kuthatha ulwazi lwezinzwa oluyinkimbinkimbi - njengabantu abasilalelayo namuhla. Ulwazi oluyinkimbinkimbi ye-acoustic, kodwa kungenzeka ukuthi bayashayela noma mhlawumbe bayapheka, ngakho-ke banolwazi oluyinkimbinkimbi olubonakalayo nolwephunga, kodwa ubuchopho babo kufanele buthathe konke lokhu bunzima futhi bubehlisele kulokho okubizwa ngokuthi ukunciphisa ubukhulu, kube yisinqumo noma kokuthi "ngizokwenzani ngokulandelayo?" Futhi siyazi kancane kakhulu ukuthi izilwane zangempela zikwenza kanjani lokhu.

Kodwa singakha kabusha izinkambu zabo ezibukwayo, bese singasebenzisa izinhlobo ezifanayo zamasu ukuze sinciphise ubukhulu, ukuqonda ukuthi ubuchopho bunciphisa kanjani lobu bunzima ezinqumweni zokunyakaza?

Futhi izinhlanzi esizifundile, zinenani elincane kakhulu lama-neurons ngemuva kobuchopho elilawula konke ukunyakaza kwazo. Ngakho-ke ubuchopho kufanele buthathe yonke le nkimbinkimbi, futhi kufanele bunciphise, futhi buthathe izinqumo. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi kuwumbuzo omangalisayo kubhayoloji ukuthi ubuchopho bukwenza kanjani lokho?

STROGATZ: Okokuqala, ngingasho ukuthi ngidinga ukufunda amaphepha akho njalo. Ushilo okuthile mayelana nezibani ezikhanyayo kwi-retina yezinhlanzi ukuze ubone lokho ezikubonayo, noma ube nomuzwa wokuthi uyazi ukuthi zibhekeni? Ngikuzwe kahle lokho?

COUZIN: Yebo, akukhanyi ngokoqobo isibani, empeleni. Konke kwenziwa ngedijithali. Ngakho-ke ake ucabange unesikole sezinhlanzi ngesifinyezo ngesikhathi, isikhashana esiyiqhwa ngesikhathi. Isofthiwe yethu ilandelela indawo kanye nokuma komzimba kwalezo zinhlanzi. Futhi esingakwenza ukuthi manje singakwazi ukudala inguqulo yekhompuyutha enezinhlangothi ezintathu yaleso sigcawu, njengasegeyimu yevidiyo. Singase sibuze, umuntu ngamunye ubonani? Ngakho singabeka amakhamera emehlweni abantu ngabanye.

Ngakho-ke, i-raycasting ifana ne-raytracing, esetshenziswa emidwebeni yekhompiyutha, okuyindlela nje yokukhanya ewela ku-retina. Futhi sikwenza konke lokhu ngedijithali, ukuze sikwazi ukudala i-analog yedijithali yeqiniso. Singabe sesibheka ukubona ukuthi ukukhanya kuzowela kanjani ku-retina kuleso sigcawu esibonakalayo, uhlobo lwesigcawu esibonakalayo se-photorealistic. Futhi ngakho lokho kusinika isendlalelo sokuqala: Iluphi ulwazi olungena kumuntu ngamunye?

Bese kuthi-ke, umbuzo omkhulu esifuna ukuwubuza ukuthi, ubuchopho bukwenza kanjani lokho? Ubuchopho bubehlisa kanjani lobu bunzima, futhi buzenza kanjani izinqumo? Ngokwesibonelo, imfuyo ewuketshezi kanye nezikole zezinhlanzi zihamba kanjani ngokuzikhandla nangokuhle kangaka ngokushayisana okungaka, kanti izimoto emgwaqweni onguthelawayeka zivame ukuba nobunzima ukuze zikwazi ukunyakaza? Ngisho ukuthi, ingabe kukhona esingakufunda ezinkulungwaneni zeminyaka yokukhethwa kwemvelo esingase sikusebenzise ezimotweni nasemarobhothini?

Ngakho-ke kukhona nesici esisetshenziswayo sokuzama ukukuqonda lokhu. Ngifuna ukuyiqonda kakhulu ngoba ngiyithola ithandeka, kodwa futhi, ihumusha ezinhlelweni zokusebenza zangempela ezimeni ezithile.

STROGATZ: Sizobuya khona manje.

[Isiqephu sokufakwa kwesikhangiso]

STROGATZ: Siyakwamukela futhi kokuthi “Injabulo Yokuthi kungani.”

Ngingathanda ukubuyela entweni oyishilo esingenisweni ngenkathi unqamula isikali ukusuka kumaselula ukuya ezinkawini, njalo njalo. Kungenzeka ukuthi abantu abasijwayele kangako isibonelo sesikhonyane, futhi ngiyazibuza ukuthi singakhuluma yini ngezinye zezinto — ake sizibize ngezezwe langempela noma izici zezomnotho zokubuthana, ngoba isikhonyane sinomthelela omkhulu emhlabeni, omkhulu kunalowo enganginawo. qaphela. Ngisho ukuthi, ngibheka ezinye izibalo lapha kumanothi ami ukuthi, phakathi neminyaka yesifo, isikhonyane sihlasela ngaphezu kwengxenye eyodwa kwesihlanu yomhlabathi.

COUZIN: Yebo.

STROGATZ: Ungakukholwa? Futhi kuthinte indlela yokuziphilisa yomuntu oyedwa kwabayi-10 emhlabeni. Ngakho-ke ungakhuluma nathi kancane ngalolo hlobo locwaningo nokuthi luhlobana kanjani nemibuzo yokuvikeleka kokudla emhlabeni wonke?

COUZIN: Yebo, uqinisile impela. Futhi ngikuthola kumangalisa lokhu. Uyazi, njengoba usanda kusho, zithinta umuntu oyedwa kwabayi-10 emhlabeni wethu ngenxa yokushoda kokudla kanye nokuvikeleka kokudla. Futhi bavame ukwenza kanjalo emazweni, uyazi, njengeYemen neSomalia, anezinkinga ezinkulu, izingxabano ezinkulu, nezimpi zombango, njalonjalo.

Kodwa futhi ngenxa yokushintsha kwesimo sezulu, uhla lwesikhonyane luyanda kulo lonke uhla lwaso. Futhi-ke, ngisho, okwamanje, kulo nyaka i-Afghanistan ibhekene nenkinga enkulu endaweni yayo yokudla. Eminyakeni embalwa edlule, kwakuyiMadagascar. Unyaka noma emibili ngaphambi kwalokho, kwakuyiKenya eneswebezane elikhulu kunawo wonke eminyakeni engu-70.

Ngakho-ke kungani, uyazi, ngabo bonke ubuchwepheshe besimanje esinabo bokuqapha, kungani izixuku ziba nonya futhi zibe namandla kakhulu, uyazi? Futhi esinye sezizathu ukuguquka kwesimo sezulu. Yilokho, uyazi, okwenzeka ngalezi zinkumbi - ngakho-ke izinkumbi, kungase kumangaze abalaleli ukwazi lokhu, kodwa izinkumbi empeleni azithandi ukusondelana. Ziyizintethe ezinamahloni, ezifihlekile ezithanda ukushiywa zodwa. Ngakho-ke uma benokudla okuningi, bavele bazihlukanise nomunye. Bayagwema bodwa. Kulapho kuphela lapho bephoqeleka khona ukuthi bahlangane lapho beshintsha khona.

Ngakho-ke ngokuvamile bayilokho okubizwa ngokuthi ababodwa, ngenxa yendlela yabo yokuphila yodwa. Kodwa uma bephoqeleka ukuba bahlangane, baguqukele ekuguqukeni. Ziwuhlobo lwe-Jekyll ne-Hyde yomhlaba wezinambuzane. Aguqukele ekuguqukeni ngokuzumayo, phakathi nehora, ngokuziphatha, abe esimweni sokuhlangana, lapho aqala khona ukumasha abheke komunye nomunye, elandelana.

Enye into abantu abangase bangayazi ukuthi izinkumbi empeleni azinawo amaphiko ezinyangeni ezimbalwa zokuqala zokuphila kwazo. Futhi ngakho lapho isikhonyane sizalwa, asikwazi ukundiza. Yilezi zimfene ezingandi. Kuphela uma sezikhulile lapho ziba namaphiko.

Futhi-ke, okwenzekayo lapha ukuthi lapho izimvula zifika e-Afrika, isibonelo, noma eNdiya, noma kwezinye izindawo, khona-ke ungaba nohlaza oluluhlaza, futhi inani elincane lesikhonyane linganda njengoba lezi zintethe ezingaqondakali, zingakhula. ngosayizi wabantu. Manje, njengoba lelo nani labantu likhula, badla kakhulu, futhi ngokuvamile kungase kube nesomiso esizayo.

Manje, uma unesibalo esiphezulu sabantu, bese kuthi ngokuzumayo ukudla kunyamalale, khona-ke okwenziwa yisikhonyane, siguqukele kulesi simo sokuhlangana, lapho siqala khona ukumasha ndawonye. Baqala ukuhamba ndawonye. Lezi zinkumbi zingaba izigidigidi zabantu - ngokubona kwakho, izinkumbi zonke zimasha ngazwi linye, njengokungathi ngenjongo efanayo. Futhi lapho sezikhule amaphiko, zingandiza. Bese kuba kubi nakakhulu, ngoba bangakwazi ukufinyelela imimoya yokuhweba noma okunye, niyazi, izimo zemvelo, lapho bengazidlulisela khona njengezinambuzane ezinkulu ezingaphezu kwamakhulu noma izinkulungwane zamakhilomitha. Ngakho-ke, lokhu kungenye yezindlela zokuziphatha ezinkulu nezilimaza kakhulu esinazo emhlabeni wethu.

STROGATZ: Hhawu, angeke ngisho ukuthi ngiwazi kahle umqondo wokumasha kwesikhonyane. Sesijwayele ukubacabanga njengoba lamafu, uyazi, enyakaza emoyeni. Kodwa sitshele okwengeziwe mayelana nokumasha, ngoba angikhumbuli kahle ucwaningo oluthile olumangalisayo elakho elinobuzimuzimu besikhonyane, igama elilungile lelo ongalisebenzisa?

COUZIN: Yebo, lokho kwakungo-2008, futhi-kodwa uqinisile, uyazi, lemihlambi emikhulu noma uswebezane noma amafu esikhonyane ashintshashintsha amabanga amade, uyazi, asazi okuningi ngazo ngoba sasingenalo. ubuchwepheshe ukufunda lokho. Eqinisweni, asikabi nabo ubuchwepheshe bokufunda lokho. Ngakho akukhona ukuthi ayibalulekile, ibaluleke ngendlela emangalisayo.

Kodwa futhi siyazi ukuthi okwandulela lezi zinyoni ezindizayo - ngisho, uswebezane olundizayo lufana nomlilo wequbula osuvele ungalawuleki. Manje uzoba nenkinga ngempela ukuyilawula. Kodwa uma ukwazi ukuyilawula ngaphambi kokuba zikhule amaphiko, uyazi, lapho zakha lezi zixuku ogwadule noma lezi zindawo ngaphambi kwalokho, khona-ke kukhona amandla amakhulu.

Ngakho-ke, ngenxa yezizathu ezingokoqobo, sagxila kulezi zinambuzane ezingenamaphiko. Futhi eqinisweni, uyazi, nakuba uqinisile, ngaqala ukufunda lezi maphakathi nawo-2000, sikhona manje, manje ngibuyela esikhonyaneni, futhi manje ngiyazifunda futhi.

Sisanda kudala uswebezane lokuqala olufanele emhlabeni endaweni yaselabhorethri, ekuqaleni kwalo nyaka, lapho silandelele khona isikhonyane esingu-10,000 endaweni yokucabanga engamamitha ayi-15 by-15-by-8-met esiyakhele lapha ngenhloso ethile, lapha. e-Konstanz. Ngakho-ke kuyahlekisa ukuthi ukhuluma ngakho, ngoba ucwaningo lwami manje selufana nokubuyela emuva kulolu hlelo olufanayo.

Kodwa, yebo, njengoba ushilo, esikutholile, uyazi, lezi zinambuzane, kungani zimasha ndawonye? Kungani - uyazi, futhi ekuqaleni sasicabanga ukuthi kufanele kufane nezikole zezinhlanzi kanye nemihlambi yezinyoni. Kufanele kube mayelana nolwazi. Kumele kube mayelana nobuhlakani obuhlangene. Hhayi-ke, besinephutha. Futhi ngakho lena ingozi enkulu. Uma ubona, uyazi, uquqaba lwezintuthwane ezihamba ziyindilinga, zihamba ngohlobo lwesigayo, futhi ubona isikole sezinhlanzi, isibonelo, siphenduka i-torus noma uhlobo lwephethini efana ne-donut, noma ubona. isivunguvungu, lawa wonke amaphethini abukeka afana, kodwa angase aqhutshwe yizimo ezihluke kakhulu.

Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi ngidukisiwe ekucabangeni, uyazi, uma ubona ukunyakaza okuhlangene, kufanele kube yizinqubo ezifanayo eziwusekelayo. Kodwa endabeni yesikhonyane, kwakungelona lolu hlobo lokudluliswa kolwazi. Empeleni kwakuyiqiniso ukuthi kulezi zindawo eziwugwadule, lapho ukudla kuba mfushane kungazelelwe, uswele izakhamzimba ezibalulekile, ikakhulukazi ogwadule: amaprotheni, usawoti kanye namanzi.

Futhi yini engcono kuwe kulolu hlobo lwendawo enokhahlo kunomunye umuntu? Ngoba zinomsoco olinganiselayo ngokuphelele. Ngakho-ke okwenziwa abantu ngabanye ukuthi, bayakhangana, futhi bavame ukudlisana. Ngakho-ke aguquke alandela lawo ahambayo, ukuzama ukuwaluma ngemuva, ngemuva kwesisu, okunzima kakhulu ukuzivikela. Ikhanda lihlome kakhulu, kodwa ingemuva lesisu liyindawo ebuthakathaka ngenxa yezizathu ezicacile, kufanele kube khona i-orifice lapho.

Futhi ngakho-ke bakhomba lokho, kodwa-ke baphinde bagweme ukukhonjwa abanye. Futhi umphumela wokulandela labo abasuka kude nawe futhi uqhela kulabo abaza ngakuwe uphumela ekubeni lonke uswebezane luqale ukumasha ndawonye lunqamula le ndawo yasogwadule.

Futhi bayazuza ngokukhangisa, ngokuphuma ezindaweni ezingenazo izakhamzimba ndawonye. Ngoba, uyazi, uma ubeka umuntu ogwadule, umuntu uzothambekela ekudidekeni futhi athambekele ekuzulazuleni emibuthanweni. Ngokufanayo nesikhonyane. Kodwa uma uwabeka oxukwini, ukuqondana kweqoqo, ukuvumelana phakathi kwabantu ngabanye, uyazi, amakhulu ezigidi zabantu abahlanganayo, bangakwazi ukumasha ngendlela eqondile bephuma kulezi zindawo ezingenazo izakhamzimba. Futhi bangakwazi futhi ukugwinya izilwane ezidla ezinye. Uyazi, izilwane ezidla ezinye azikwazi ukwenza okuningi lapha.

STROGATZ: Kungenza ngizibuze, empeleni, njengoba sikhuluma ngazo zonke lezi zibonelo, waba kanjani nesithakazelo kukho konke lokhu, emuva ezinsukwini zakudala? Ushilo ukuthi lokhu bekubuye ngo-2008?

COUZIN: Yebo, lelo kwakuyilelo phepha ngo-2008.

STROGATZ: Yebo, ubumatasa ngalokhu nangaphambi kwalokho, akunjalo?

COUZIN: Yebo, ngenze i-Ph.D yami. ngasekupheleni kweminyaka engamashumi ayisishiyagalolunye ezintuthwaneni. Ngathatheka ngokuziphatha kwezintuthwane. Futhi uma ngikhuluma iqiniso, kwaqala ngokuthanda imvelo kanye nokuthatheka ngomlando wemvelo nje nokubuka okwakusizungezile.

Ngacabanga, ngiseyingane, kufanele kube khona uchwepheshe oqondayo ukuthi kungani amaqulo akhula, kungani izinhlanzi zifunda, kungani izinyoni zitheleka. Ngacabanga ukuthi lokhu kufanele kube yinto efundwa yiwo wonke umuntu.

Ngangiyiciko ngiseyingane. Bengikuthakasela kakhulu ukubhala ngobuciko kanye nezinkondlo nezobuciko. Ngakho-ke, ekuqaleni ngakhangwa ubuhle obumsulwa, ukuthakaselwa ubuhle balezi.

Futhi esikoleni esiphakeme, ngangingeyena umfundi ophumelelayo kwezesayensi. Bengenza izitsha zobumba futhi ngipenda. Futhi ngenkathi ngiya enyuvesi, ngiyakhumbula ubaba wami wathi kimi, “Uyazi, ndodana, kufanele wenze lokho okwaziyo ukukwenza kahle. Yenza isiNgisi noma ubuciko. Awuyena usosayensi, uyisazi semvelo, uyazi?” Futhi wayeqinisile. Wayeqinisile impela.

Kwase kuthi kamuva lapho ngenza iziqu zebhayoloji, futhi ngavele ngazi esifundweni sami sokuqala sebhayoloji, ngangazi ukuthi lokhu kwakuyinto elungile kimi, ngavele ngazi. Futhi ngathola ukuthi kukhona lo mhlaba wonke we-physics yezibalo. Lawa maphepha aphuma ngaleso sikhathi, futhi angishaya ingqondo ngoba ayengababhali ababebona izimiso zezibalo ezijulile kuzo zonke izinhlelo.

I-Ph.D yami. Umeluleki uthe, uyazi, ukuze uthole umsebenzi, kufanele ube uchwepheshe womhlaba ohlotsheni olulodwa lwezintuthwane, bese ungaba yigugu. Kodwa ngangifunda lo msebenzi wososayensi abenza okuphambene. Babefunda yonke into, kusukela ezimisweni zenyama kuya ezinhlelweni zebhayoloji, futhi babezibona lezi zimiso. Futhi, amaphethini nezakhiwo kanye nemiphumela ababeyithola yayimihle ngokwemvelo. Futhi ngakho ngacabanga, lokhu kufanele kube kulungile. Lokhu kufanele kube indlela efanele yokwenza isayensi. Ngakho-ke, ngaleso sikhathi, ngangisanda kudonswa emhlabeni we-physics.

STROGATZ: Ingabe wake waba nenjabulo yokuxoxa nobaba wakho ngemva kwalokho mayelana nokushintsha kwakho indlela?

COUZIN: Angikaze, ngicabange ukuthi ubaba wami uyakukhumbula lokhu. Kwathi lapho ngikhushulelwa esikhundleni sokuba umsizi kasolwazi ngaba uprofesa ogcwele eNyuvesi yasePrinceton, ngathola ucingo oluvela kusihlalo womnyango olwathi, “Halala, Solwazi Couzin.” Futhi, uyazi, ngangivele ngishaywe umoya ngokuphelele, ngakho-ke ngashayela umama nobaba ucingo, futhi ubaba waluphendula ucingo, wayesethi, “Futhi ukucabanga ukuthi ngikubize ngesazi semvelo.” Yileso sikhathi kuphela, lokho amashumi eminyaka kamuva. Ngangingazi ukuthi wayeyikhumbula le ngxoxo.

STROGATZ: Hhayi-ke, yindaba emnandi, yindaba emnandi impela. Sithanda ukukhuluma ngemibuzo emikhulu engaphenduleki kulolu hlelo, ngakho-ke, yini oyibona njengeminye yemibuzo emikhulu engaphenduleki mayelana nemihlambi nezikole kanye nokuziphatha okuhlangene ngokuvamile?

COUZIN: Yebo, ngiyakwenza. Futhi lokhu kungifaka esihlokweni engijabule ngaso manje. Ngakho-ke futhi, ekuqaleni komsebenzi wami, ngacabanga, uyazi, ubuchopho, vele, iyinhlangano emangalisayo yokubala ehlangene, esinye sezibonelo ezinhle kakhulu, owaziyo. Ubuchopho buzithatha kanjani izinqumo? Futhi iqoqo lama-neurons, futhi vele sinoswebezane lwezintuthwane, noma uswebezane lwesikhonyane, noma imihlambi yezinyoni, noma izikole zezinhlanzi, zonke lezi zingxenye ezihlukene ezisebenzisanayo. Ngakho-ke, ingabe kukhona okuxhumanisa ngokujulile lezi zinhlelo ezahlukene, noma cha? Futhi engikuthakaselayo okwamanje wukuthatha izinqumo ngokuhlanganyela, futhi ikakhulukazi ukuthathwa kwezinqumo ngokuhlanganyela emkhathini.

Ngakho-ke, ubuchopho bumelela kanjani isikhathi sendawo? Futhi lokho kubaluleke kanjani mayelana nezinqumo? Futhi lokho kuhlangene ngani emhlabeni nokuziphatha okuhlangene kwezilwane? Engakubona eminyakeni emihlanu edlule, ukuthi ngicabanga ukuthi kunokufana okujulile kwezibalo, futhi ngicabanga ukuthi kunezimiso ezijulile zejometri, mayelana nokuthi ubuchopho bumele kanjani indawo kanye nesikhathi.

Futhi enye yezinto ezijabulisa kakhulu lapha ukusetshenziswa kwezibalo futhi. Uyazi, ngaziyeka izibalo ngineminyaka engu-16 ubudala, futhi ngisanda kuchitha isabatha e-Isaac Newton Institute for Mathematics Sciences eNyuvesi yaseCambridge njengoMngane Ohlonishwayo. Nokho, angikwazi ukuxazulula isibalo, uyazi?

Ngakho nginjalo, kodwa ngiyalithanda iqiniso lokuthi ngingasebenza nochwepheshe bezibalo abamangalisayo. Futhi ngokusebenzisana nezazi zefiziksi nezazi zezibalo kanye nezazi zebhayoloji, nangokuqhuba izivivinyo ezilwaneni eqinisweni elibonakalayo — sakhe uchungechunge lobuchwepheshe lapha. Ngakho-ke asikwazi ukufaka ihedisethi njenge-Meta Quest 3 enhlanzini engaphansi kwesentimitha ubude. Kodwa singakwazi ukudala i-virtual, immersive, indawo ye-holographic, ukuze sikwazi ukulawula ngokuphelele okokufaka. Singakwazi ukulawula ngokuphelele ubudlelwano obuyimbangela.

Uma, uyazi, ngiyakuthonya futhi uyangithonya, bese kuba nomuntu wesithathu, ingabe ungithonya ngokuqondile noma ngawe? Noma kokubili? Noma umuntu wesine noma wesihlanu? Futhi ezimweni zethu zangempela zangempela, singabeka laba bantu kulokho esikubiza ngokuthi i-Matrix, njengaku-movie, lapho umuntu ngamunye esemhlabeni wakhe we-holographic futhi ehlanganyela ngesikhathi sangempela namahologram abanye abantu.

Kepha kulo mhlaba, singadlala ngemithetho yefiziksi. Singadlala ngemithetho yendawo nesikhathi ukuze siqonde kangcono, ubuchopho buhlanganisa kanjani lokhu?

Ngakho-ke, lokhu kuyangiphazamisa ngempela ngoba singabonisa ukuthi ubuchopho abumeli isikhala ngendlela ye-Euclidean. Imele isikhala ohlelweni lokuxhumanisa olungeyona i-Euclidean. Futhi-ke singase sibonise ngokwezibalo ukuthi kungani lokhu kubaluleke kangaka, okungukuthi uma uqala ukubhekana nezinketho ezintathu noma ngaphezulu, khona-ke empeleni i-warping spacetime, okwenza indawo ingabi yi-Euclidean, inganciphisa kakhulu inkimbinkimbi yomhlaba ibe uchungechunge lokuphindaphinda kabili. Futhi eduze ne-bifurcation ngayinye, ikhulisa umehluko phakathi kwezinketho ezisele. Ngakho kukhona lesi sakhiwo sangaphakathi esihle.

Ngakho-ke, sicabanga ukuthi sinale thiyori yendawo yonke yokuthi ubuchopho buzenza kanjani izinqumo zendawo ebesingeke sazithola ngaphandle kokubheka uhla lwezinto eziphilayo njengezinhlanzi nezintethe nezimpukane ngaphakathi kwalezi zinhlobo zezindawo ezingokoqobo, futhi lokho engikuthokozela kakhulu.

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STROGATZ: Hhayi-ke, angisakwazi ukulinda ukuzwa ngakho konke lokhu njengoba nikulungisa. Ngingaqhubeka nawe usuku lonke, kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi sekuyisikhathi sokuthi ngibonge. Besilokhu sikhuluma nesazi sokuziphendukela kwemvelo u-Iain Couzin mayelana nokugcwala, ukugcwala, ukufunda esikoleni kanye nazo zonke izinhlobo zokuziphatha okuhlangene. Yebo, kube yintokozo ukwazi ukuthi wenzani kanye nezimangaliso zemvelo osisize ukuzidalula kithi sonke. Ngiyabonga kakhulu.

COUZIN: Kube yintokozo. Ngiyabonga, Steve.

[Itimu iyaqhubeka nokudlala]

STROGATZ: Siyabonga ngokulalela. Uma ujabulela “Injabulo Yokuthi kungani” futhi ungakabhalisi, cindezela inkinobho yokubhalisa noma landela lapho ulalele khona. Ungakwazi futhi ukushiya isibuyekezo sombukiso. Isiza abantu ukuthi bathole le podcast.

"Injabulo yokuthi kungani" i-podcast evela I-Quanta Magazine, ushicilelo oluzimele lokuhlela olusekelwa yi- ISimons Foundation. Izinqumo zoxhaso ezenziwa yiSimons Foundation azinawo umthelela ekukhethweni kwezihloko, izivakashi noma ezinye izinqumo zokuhlela kule podcast noma ku. I-Quanta Magazine.

"Injabulo yokuthi kungani" ikhiqizwa ngu Imikhiqizo ye-PRX. Ithimba labadidiyeli nguCaitlin Faulds, uLivia Brock, uGenevieve Sponsler noMerritt Jacob. Umdidiyeli omkhulu wePRX Productions nguJocelyn Gonzales. IMorgan Church no-Edwin Ochoa banikeza usizo olwengeziwe.

Kusukela I-Quanta Magazine, UJohn Rennie noThomas Lin banikeze isiqondiso sokuhlela, ngokusekelwa kukaMatt Carlstrom, Samuel Velasco, Nona Griffin, Arleen Santana kanye noMadison Goldberg.

Umculo wethu wetimu uvela ku-APM Music. U-Julian Lin uqhamuke negama le-podcast. Ubuciko besiqephu nguPeter Greenwood kanti uphawu lwethu lubhalwe nguJaki King noKristina Armitage. Sibonga ngokukhethekile i-Columbia Journalism School kanye no-Bert Odom-Reed e-Cornell Broadcast Studios.

Ngingumbungazi wakho, uSteve Strogatz. Uma unemibuzo noma ukuphawula kwethu, sicela usithumele i-imeyili ku [i-imeyili ivikelwe]. Siyabonga ngokulalela.